Captivate Podcast: The Quiet Conversation: How Nonverbal Cues Shape the Caregiving Experience with Yarona Boster | 006

Welcome to episode six of the Sharegiving Secret. Today I'll be interviewing Ms Yarona Boster, who is a communication master, advanced certified life coach, certified speaker coach, international speaker TEDx, speaker and two time best selling international author, using her 17 years of experience in human development, early childhood psychology and coaching, Yarona guides people in harnessing the art of communication by learning the behavioral skills needed to modify their verbal and nonverbal language, from CEOs to parents, from intimate relationships to world stages. When we learn these skills, we become our own best asset in our personal and professional lives. Welcome Yarona.

Thank you, Deborah, it's lovely to be here with you today.

Lovely to have you with me. Thank you. You and I have spoken together frequently about verbal and nonverbal language, and by that we mean I think the words we say and our body language as we say them, so I remember that old expression. It ain't what you say, but how you say it, and I'm looking forward to digging into that connection. Please tell our listeners what everyone, especially the caregiver, needs to know about this link.

So nonverbal communication is actually five times more than verbal communication. It's it affects people five times more. It's actually about how we say, what we say, more than the words we say. That's essentially what we where we're going with this, because it's more than body language. It encompasses the emotional contagion. It encompasses the sound of our voice, even the facial expressions, our body Language and gestures, yes, and even just our generalized presence and the way we present ourselves in the space that we're in when we're with somebody, especially our awareness of those that person or those people. When it comes to caregiving, something that's really hard is that the emotional contagion gets really trapped. And I'll explain what I mean by that. I want to explain that what the emotional contagion is, but it gets really trapped and boxed in for people who are in the caregiving presence, because they don't know how to express it without putting that onto the person they're caregiving. So let me first explain what the emotional contagion is. It's a fascinating phenomenon of mirror neurons that are dispersed across the brain that are picked up by other people around us. It's an incredible form of social influence. And essentially, to break it down in layman's terms, it's like catching what other people are feeling. It's that influence we have over people. Let's say you walk into a room and you're naturally joyous and you're naturally smiling and you're really happy to be there. Other people start to naturally relax and pick up your joy, and they start to feel a little bit lighter. My favorite example, let's say you're on a grocery store like, you're on a grocery store line, a checkout line, and it's taking a long time, but you're fine. You're like, you know what? I got nowhere important to be I'm here. I'm doing what my thing, you know? And suddenly the person behind you was like, and they start grumbling a little bit. Now, didn't they didn't say anything yet, but they start grumbling a bit, and they're like, oh my god, wow. And then now they're like, Oh, why is this taking forever? And you could hear that in their voice. They're not saying, Why is this taking forever? No, they're saying, Why is this taking forever? I have places to be. And they start getting more upset. And then they look at you and they make eye contact, because eye contact is a huge component to body language as well. They suddenly start talking to you. They're like, this is ridiculous. This is taking forever, you know, because you oftentimes that happens, right? They're like, why is it taking so long? This person is forever? And you're like, oh, yeah, you know, it is taking a little, you know, and you're like, and you're not necessarily bothered by the fact that it's taking forever, but you start to become aware of it. And then you start talking to them, and suddenly you feel yourself growing in agitation. You're like, yeah, oh, I do have some places that I got. I got I do have some things I gotta get done. I don't have any place to be, but I got things to do, and suddenly your brain starts circling that same wagon of what they just threw at you. That's the power of the emotional contagion, because they may not have said a whole lot, they maybe they didn't capture you in conversation, but just a couple little comments, and suddenly you find yourself getting agitated and a. Frustrated. That's the power of the emotional contagion. Now, when it comes to caregiving, the person who's in that space of being the caregiver often tries to put a mask on to mask what they're truly feeling about that caregiving that they're doing. They're like, Okay, I'll just smile and nod. You know we're or at the doctor's office. Okay, we got this. We're good, even though inside you're feeling like, Ah, this isn't good. Here's the interesting thing about the emotional contagion, people will pick up the disconnect. So they'll pick up that you're putting a mask on if we're in tune with our emotions. Now, granted, if somebody else is not in tune, they may just want to say, okay, yeah, this, you got this I'm in good hands, because they want to believe that that part is true. And it becomes a really, I hate, I hate using the word toxic. But in this instance, it does, it becomes a bit of a toxic environment where everybody's holding back on their feelings, but at each person is feeling what the other person's feeling. So there's all this cognitive dissonance going on. There's all this disconnect happening because nobody's really talking about the real monsters in the room and really unpacking all of it and unpacking the unsurety, unpacking the worries and the fears and everything. And we tend when we're in caregiver mode, to think that's what we need to do in order to to present a confident front and to present a, you know, powerful like, I've got this, we've got this, you've got this, everything's going to be okay. And then what happens is that the people move further apart from one another in that caregiving space. So the person who's suffering with, let's say the illness, or whatever it may be, is feeling like, I can't share how difficult this is with my caregiver, even if that's my loved one, because they're saying, we're good. We got this. We're going to be it's going to it's going to be okay. And then the person who's in the caregiver role is like, Oh, I can't show them that I'm afraid. And then they move further and further apart, and they can't rely on each other in a healthier manner. They can't find a better balance to both share the worries and the fears and also be the supporter and the supported utilize that space in a back and forth mechanism.

Wow, I didn't realize the sounds like a mood meld of some sort. I didn't realize how complexly that could affect someone even before a word is uttered. I mean, we always used to talk about how someone walked into the office and said, Oh, what a terrible commute I had, it would bring down the mood. But even what you're saying is, even before people open their mouths, there's some kind of mood pressure being exerted between and among people that starts the ball rolling before any words are even spoken. So what would a caregiver do to remedy that situation? If they recognize that that's what's happening?

I always think that the best thing is to have a mediator to help unpack that stuff. One of the hardest things if you're a caregiver who's being paid, there's a different dynamic there, if you're a caregiver, who is actually somebody that is the of the loved one, like when I was caring for my father and when I was caring for my mother, I was their child, and I was an adult child at that point, you know, caring for my parents, and it was very difficult space. And I will say that when hospice came in, there were we luckily ended up with some very good social workers who were able to help us unpack that space and get us to talk more. And I knew it was there. Psychologically, I knew it was there. But here's the problem, when you're a caregiver for someone you love, there's no objectivity there. There's no buffer space between you and the person you love. So even as you're emotionally moving, withdrawing from one another, or, I wouldn't say withdrawing, but kind of trying to shield each other and shield yourselves, you're you're still having no objectivity. In fact, one of the reasons that actually happens where you put up the shields is because you care too much about the person. You love them so much you don't want to hurt them with your worry and your concerns and all of those things, and neither does the caregiver. You know, there's this dynamic of like, I have got to still take care of that person, and taking care of them means not just taking care of their physical safety, but their psychological safety, right,

right? I think in a family, this situation is probably 10 times more complicated than if you hire a professional caregiver to come in, because they're all those previous relationships of parent, child or spouse to spouse that have to be accommodated when when you're trying to do the right. Thing. I remember that kind of thing happening when I was caring for my dad, and we were talking to one of his doctors, and he would ask me questions, and I would answer him, and he said to me, look at your dad when you're saying those things. And all of a sudden I realized I could not switch my brain between being the daughter or being the caregiver now, who had to deal with the professional, and it was awfully hard, and he didn't give me any advice about how to do that, but that moment really stuck out. And I tried after that to include my dad more in the conversation, which was all new to me, and I the only way I could handle it was to kind of compartmentalize, which ended up creating work more problems in this situation, I think so. I'm really glad that you brought that up. That really does clarify it. When you're thinking about caregivers, what do you believe is the most important part in a caregiver's role to ensure that it's feasible and sustainable for both the caregiver and the person they're caring for.

The most important part in a caregiver's role is knowing when they need to say no and when they need to ask for additional help. This is so hard for people in a caregiving role, we go into this helper mindset of I have to be the help. And we've some, we somehow managed to put on these little blinders of asking for additional help. I'll give you an example. And I wouldn't necessarily say this is a perfect example, but it does really highlight how we're just oftentimes very sole focused. It's like, whoa. We're right in here, and we got to stay here. When my father was dying. I had, at that point, moved into my parents house, and I was there 24/7 my I wasn't with my husband at the time. I, you know, like I I moved up, I moved to my parents house, and my husband said, Look, whatever you need to do, babe, whatever you need to do. And that was great. And through a lot of circumstances, my mom was still working, so she had to go to work each day. So I was my father's main caregiver. My sisters were split all over the place, and I was there 24/7 and as my father declined more and more, and we had to up the medications, and we had to start, you know, and I was physically caring for his needs. I was also mentally, you know, just in that space 24/7 and we were even in a place where I was starting to give him meds every four hours. So I was waking in the night to give him medication too. So I wasn't getting much sleep. I was actually moved my bed so that it could be closer to the room we had him in. And I was just so focused there. Well, my sister came in from the she doesn't live in the States. She came in and she looked, she took one look at me, and she said, That's it. You need to leave. And I'm like, What? No, no, I have to be here. I have to be here. And I was so focused on I have to be here, that she said to me, no, you need to go home. You need to get a proper rest and a shower, and you need to go out to eat somewhere with your husband, and you just, you need to go and relax when you're better, come back. Okay, I'll be here. I got this, and I was like, you know, and even though, as I was driving away, I physically felt like I was still being pulled back to the house. I'm like, no, no, I should turn around. No, I should go back. I should go back. I felt so guilty, and so, you know, torn. But the then, when I finally got home, I, like, just broke down with my husband for a little while, and I, I really, I just we sat, and then we watched some movie, and then I finally took a shower, and I took a and he's like, go to bed. And I'm like, okay, and I went to bed, and then we went out to eat, and it was lovely. And I still remember it was so visceral to me having just sitting with him, and we were sitting in this beautiful place where it was outside and the fall weather was coming, so it was glorious. And I just remember sitting there and just breathing in the silence. You know, my husband was just sitting with me in the silence and eating our meal quietly, and that gave me such a renewed place that it's something I really try to harness for people who are in that caregiving role, understand, you cannot possibly do it all and be it all, or you will Break just as much as they will. And that's not what you want to happen. You want to be capable of supporting your needs and also supporting theirs. And that means saying, No, when? When somebody, if somebody tells you you have to be there. 24/7, no, you do not. If somebody says, Well, why can't you do this and this and this and this too? Because you're one human being and you're not a machine. You know, there's a lot of responses you can go with, but the ultimate and best response is just simply just saying, I cannot do this and stand firmly on that, even when you're being swamped by guilt. In fact, if you're feeling very guilt, horn about saying, No, you need to investigate that. Yeah, because there's a problem there. Why are you feeling so guilty? Who's putting that guilt on you? Are you doing it, or is it also pressure from others externally?

That was a lovely moment when your sister intervened and gave you that kind of break, and then after that, you described probably the opposite of emotional contagion, but more like, I haven't got the word exactly for it, but some emotional togetherness and feeling of at oneness and harmony that you had been missing probably for a long time as a caregiver, that raises a lot of interesting topics. And one that I was actually working on this morning in a listening group was, how does the caregiver exit from caregiving? In the case where we're losing our care recipient, losing a loved one, there's still the process of moving away from it or breaking away from it, depending on how dramatic that has to be what are some advice that you have for caregivers who are in that moving away moment?

I think this is where we have to acknowledge that everybody has individual needs. So one of my favorite statistics to tell the whole world, I intend to make sure everybody in the world knows this we are as unique as one in 400 trillion people. There haven't even been 400 trillion people in recorded history yet. That's how unique every person is, which means that how one person does it is going to look different from how somebody else does it. When with my father, I was literally taking care of one of his final needs when he took his final breath. And that is a really hard break to to come so abruptly, and I had to go into and here's the crazy thing. I had been in, in mourning mode for months. I had been in the process of grieving, and I, I personally don't feel that grieving ever ends. I look at grief more as a cycle and a rubber band effect. So I want to explain this first before I explain how to make that break. I think it has to do with the rubber band, though, when you're losing a loved one, especially in that caregiver role, even if you're being even if you're in a paid caregiver role, you need to understand that that break comes, it will always come before we're fully ready for it. There's never going to be a moment where we say, Okay, this is it. You go, go. Well, at least not in the healthy relation, the healthier relationships. But I had been, you know, we had known about his cancer, having returned for many months. We knew where it was, that it was in, you know, it wasn't treatable. We knew all of this stuff. So I had been preparing for many, many months. I had been doing things with him, like writing out some of this awesome book. There's a wonderful book, which is you can do with grandparents, parents. It's called conversations with my father, and it was wonderful. And, and it really gave me an opportunity to ask him these questions that are just really curious questions more than anything else. And, and it was lovely. We finished that we did all of these things together. But when you then pop into the caregiver mode, where you are now, you're in a cycle of waking every two hours. And at that point, my sister was tag teaming me, and my mother was occasionally, she was kind of going back and forth to work and then caregiving. And so she would help us when she would come home and we would take breaks. So it was just a constant cycle. Like I said in this instance, we were now, at that point, we were in supporter mode, where we were all supporting each other. If I had been doing it completely alone, I probably would have broken so we were able to then tag team one another. But in that those final moments, that break comes and you're never ready for it, you your loved one could be in their 90s, and you're still not ready for it, and and I hate when people minimize this. Oh, they lived a long life. Well, my father didn't, and neither did my mother. But even if they did live into their 90s, that doesn't diminish the grief you experience sometimes, living a long life actually makes somebody else who's right, quite close to them, lose themselves as well. In fact, we often see this with spouses who've been together for a very long time, and that disconnection is often understood as the antithesis of of our human trait. Connection is a core part of what we need. So when that disconnect happens, where you can't go with them, right in that moment, you can't go with them. So what do you do? You fall into grief, and you fall into this place. And grief takes many, many forms, but I like to think of it as a rubber band. However, that grief takes shape for you. So when it first hits, it's like a rubber band, that is, it has the tightest elasticity. It is so constricting it feels like you can barely breathe. And then over time, as each day moves on and you take one step, you take one more breath, you take one more shower, one more bite to eat, your life begins to grow around that grief. It's not that the grief diminishes. It's just that your life starts to grow bigger and bigger and longer and longer and further and further, and then every once in a while, something will happen and it'll pull you right back into that grief. I remember a few months after my father passed away, I was I had old voicemails on my phone, and I was like, oh, I should probably get rid of some of these. I was listening to them, and I came upon a voicemail from my father, and just hearing his voice just broke me and I just fell apart. My husband was like, what's wrong? What's wrong. He thought something had happened, and I just, I just fell apart, so that grief can bring us back to it. In fact, on Monday this past Monday, October 7, was my father's the anniversary of my father's death, and and I felt a lot. And it's interesting how some years you'll feel nothing, and other years you will feel everything, and other things that happen symbolically will remind you even more so so that grief is, in my opinion, more of a rubber band state, and over time, the elasticity loosens, and it doesn't hit us as hard, but sometimes it does, and we have to give ourselves grace and space to process through it. And so that break that happens that that carrying on of oneself is really more a matter of acknowledging that you are never going to be free of that experience, but you can move on to live your life freely and expressively and beautifully, and you can actually carry that loss forward with you and give meaning to it in your life. I think that's what also makes that piece of the puzzle make more sense to you as a caregiver. You know it makes your caregiver role start to make more sense, because I felt very honored to take care of my parents. I felt like, wow, this is a great honor. And some people would look more on the burdensome side of it. And I had many people tell me I could never do that. I could never do that. Never say, Never until you are in a situation because you don't know you might change that mindset. But in in the caregiver role, I think what happens is you start to understand that you can give more care back to yourself. Give yourself that grace and space and the grief. Give yourself that grace and space to accidentally find yourself back into caregiver mode by taking care of the other people around you and going like, Oops, back here, let me give you your medicine, and your family members going like, I can I'm perfectly competent to give myself my own medicine. But it does, it does leave a lasting impression on you, I think, is what I'd like to say. I hate to call it anything else, other than an impression. It impacts you on a level that is when you give it the understanding of what it truly meant to you, even if it meant resentment, even if it meant something like I didn't want to do this, and I was pushed into this role. So moving into completely opposite mode, and not caring about anybody else but yourself, give yourself grace and space for that too, because you have to acknowledge, you know, I didn't want that burden, and everybody told me I had to carry that burden, and now I'm free of it, and that freedom makes me feel good, because it's not selfish to put yourself in self protection mode and self care and self love and self permission and all of these wonderful, beautiful things. Give yourself permission to say that's not a role I'd ever want to take on ever again. That's okay. You know, the more we acknowledge things that we want or don't want in our lives, that we need or don't need in our lives, the more we have an ability to be more comfortable with exactly who we are and who we want to be.

That's a lot of wonderful information, and a couple things I'm going to carry away in particular would be that grief is different for everyone, and it's a kind of improvisation every day that it's not going to you're not going to wake up and say, Oh, that again, necessarily. It might be something else that you want to think about. So it does give you intermittent relief in that rubber band state that you were talking about. And the other thing was, if you can have those conversations with your loved one before they can't speak anymore or write anymore, it's so valuable to that grieving process to have those things to go back and look at. And I assure you you are not the first person to save the voicemail now. Such as ever since voicemail, that was a similar experience I had in hearing my dad's voice after the fact and and it helped people. Some people think that's kind of gloomy, but just hearing it, because that's what disappears from the earth, the sound of the voice, and that connection of language and words that you need to have to bring us back to where, almost where we started there. So I wanted to ask you, is there a way that listeners can connect with you? I understand you're a coach and a speaker. Are there some things you might tell us about where to find you? Yes,

I have two websites, distinctively, because one side is the side that I I work with parents, and I work in the field of loss. So that's my footprints coaching.org again, it's footprints coaching.org or one word, footprints coaching. And that you can find me there. You can see me speaking. You can listen to my podcasts. I have a podcast called The evolution of parenting. And then on the other leg of what I do is my speaker coaching work, where I work with speakers to elevate their communication skills. Because in my mind, all of this lands on communication. Everything we do is hinges on how we plan on communicating, how we intend to communicate, and how we deliberately work on our behavioral skills around communication, because something I have noticed is the unspoken signals, and these are the in the emotional contagions, in the things not spoken, are the things people pick up the Most from us, and when we tap into those unspoken signals and we make them spoken, we actually have conversations about those things. That's where deeper learning comes from. That's where deeper awareness and understanding and critical thinking and just acknowledging the things we understand and we don't understand, but if we never speak of the things unspoken, we're often left questioning. So that other side of what I do, I did forget that I wanted to say that too. That's my euronaboster.com and that's in my speaker coaching work. And I do run a course on communications mastery Academy, and it's all about communication, effective communication skills, and most importantly, for people in leadership roles, people who are in positions where they have some measure of power or persuasion over others. So if you're a speaker, you're a CEO, you're a leader, you're an executive, whatever that may be, you have the responsibility to harness the behavioral skills you need in your communication to be able to help the people who are sitting there trying to understand what you're conveying. And that's really important. Those behavioral skills are learned developmental skills. They're not innate in who we are, which means we have to be capable of learning better skills. But even if we don't have to, we should want to learn better communication skills, because it will impact every area of our lives, professionally and personally.

Yeah, I think that's a wonderful note to close on that we can't do this without communication skills, and it makes for a better life when we do so Yarona, I want to thank you so very much for this stimulating conversation, which I can't believe is coming to an end. And I hope you'll come back sometime for a follow up interview really soon. And I also thank listeners for listening today. And if you have any feedback for us, there's certainly a comments place in the show notes area. So please let us know how it went for you today and what other topics you'd like to listen to. And I hope everyone will join me for next time for another sharegiving secret, have a wonderful day bye.